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There have been a lot of difficult economic situations and market fluctuations in the recent 30 years, but none of those devalued high-end artworks significantly.

There have been a lot of difficult economic situations and market fluctuations in the recent 30 years, but none of those have devalued high-end artworks significantly.

The simple past in the second clause refers to each individual situation in the past; it indicates that the prices of high-end artworks didn’t change significantly when fluctuations or crises occurred. For instance, there is a painting, 10 years ago its price was 1 million dollars, but when a negative economic situation occurred (also 10 years ago), the price dropped to 900 thousand. In the present the price of this painting might be 2 million dollars, so since that time the price might have changed.

But if I use the present perfect, it will indicate that no such changes have occurred up to now. Let’s say the same situation took place 10 years ago, but now the price is between 900 thousand and 1 million. Since that time, the price hasn’t changed significantly.

Is my understanding correct?

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    There's no significant difference between simple past and present perfect in these sentences. Commented May 20 at 21:08
  • Do you think the simple past refers to what happened at the time of a particular fluctuation, while present perfect refers to the long-term effects up to now? I don't think so. Commented May 20 at 21:15
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    We'd say "in the last 30 years" and "none of them" I would use simple past: "... but none of them devalued..." since you're referring to specific past fluctuations and their effects at the time. Commented May 20 at 21:24
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    This question is similar to: Present-perfect-tense vs. Simple-past-tense. If you believe it’s different, please edit the question, make it clear how it’s different and/or how the answers on that question are not helpful for your problem. Commented May 21 at 13:54

2 Answers 2

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We're comparing Sentences 1 and 2:

  1. There have been a lot of difficult economic situations and market fluctuations in the recent 30 years, but none of those devalued high-end artworks significantly.

  2. There have been a lot of difficult economic situations and market fluctuations in the recent 30 years, but none of those have devalued high-end artworks significantly.


Is my understanding correct?

Yes, but your interpretation is only one of many possible correct interpretations.

Here's another possible correct interpretation:

Imagine a scenario where there've been 5 "difficult economic situations". But while the first 4 have completely passed, the 5th is still ongoing at present. So, the present perfect for the first clause ("There have been ...") is correct because there's still one such ongoing situation.

In this scenario, we could interpret Sentence 1 to mean this: The first 4 situations definitely did not "devalue[] high-end artworks significantly", but we do not yet know whether the 5th has done so. And, our use of Sentence 1 is perhaps a way for us to refrain from making any such judgment as to the as-yet unknown effects of the 5th situation.

In contrast, Sentence 2 would mean that all 5 Situations (including the 5th and still ongoing one) have (up to the present moment) not "devalued high-end artworks significantly".


But all of the above (both your interpretation and mine) are somewhat pedantic.

In practice, English speakers will use both Sentences 1 and 2 interchangeably without the choice of one sentence over the other implying any difference in the speaker's intended meaning. Each of Sentences 1 and 2 could mean any one of the above interpretations (and quite possibly also other interpretations we haven't considered).

Most speech and writing is never as precise as suggested by the above interpretations.

Here, our sentences refer somewhat vaguely to "a lot" of events in the past "30 years". And so here especially, we should not expect too much precision out of either Sentence 1 or 2.


(By the way, "past 30 years" is better and more natural/idiomatic than "recent 30 years".)

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  • Thank you, @user182601. Is the difference more clear in these? John worked as a police officer for 25 years. He’s seen the ugly side of life many times, but none of them changed his opinion about the importance of his profession. -> He worked in the past, he's still alive and he's had a lot of experiences, at the time of a particular experience he didn't change his opinion about the job. John worked as a police officer for 25 years. He’s seen the ugly side of life many times, but none of them have changed his opinion about the importance of his profession.->He hasn't changed up to now. Commented May 22 at 22:17
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    @Tony_M: I would say my above answer applies also to this new example. Commented May 23 at 2:51
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As others on this page have noted, the simple past (devalued) and the present perfect (has devalued) appear to produce the same meaning in your example. So what's the point of having different tenses if they do the same thing?

The answer is that they don't do the same thing.

We can use a linguistics concept called grammatical aspect that (some argue) is very prominent in languages such as Koine Greek but is seldom brought up when talking about English.

The idea is that when filming a scene, you can have the camera follow a character as they move around the room (close proximity, 'imperfective' aspect), or you can have the camera set on a wide-angle lens in one spot, taking everything in without panning or zooming etc (distant proximity, 'perfective' aspect - "perfective" here has nothing to do with the "perfect" in "perfect tense"). Both are viable ways to film a scene, but each gives the scene something the other doesn't. Regardless of which style you choose, the actors do the same thing; the facts remain the same. It's the feel that's different.

The difference between the simple past and the present perfect in your example is similar. The 'facts' are the same: both convey the same message, but the feel is slightly different.

Wikipedia has this helpful comment:

Aspect can be said to describe the texture of the time in which a situation occurs, such as a single point of time, a continuous range of time, a sequence of discrete points in time, etc., whereas tense indicates its location in time.

If we analyse your examples using grammatical aspect, the simple past has a perfective aspect and the present perfect has an imperfective aspect. "It devalued" collapses the whole of the past into a single snapshot, where the focus is not on the devaluing but the simple fact that it happened. The present perfect, on the other hand, conveys more of the sense of the passage of time. "It has devalued" is like the camera that follows the price from when it was high to when it is now low.

We can see this difference in feeling a bit more in the following pair:

  • We fought. We won. (Simple past, perfective aspect, 'summary' feel.)
  • We have fought. We have won. (Present perfect, imperfective aspect, flow-of-time feel.)

Summary: there is a difference in your examples between using the simple past and the present perfect, but it is very subtle. If both versions were uttered in a speech, it is likely that no one would have noticed the difference. But there are times, as in my fight/win example, when a writer or speaker can keep things clinically factual or bring their audience with them, depending on which version they pick.

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    Some people don't like it when I try to tease out subtle differences in the use of language. That's okay. I enjoy coming across little weird bits and pondering them until I understand why they do what they do. Quite often, this turns the 'weird' into 'wonderful'. Commented May 21 at 13:02

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